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Will society become chaotic without religion?

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Two of the heavyweights of the intellectual dark web, Jordan Peterson, and Sam Harris discuss whether society will be more peaceful and cohesive if religion is dispensed with, or whether we have grown, in a fundamental way, reliant on the moral stories religion gives us to have a harmonious, peaceful societal structure.
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RafaStarin
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Sam's basic argument, that we don't need to turn to irrational beliefs to create a moral foundation, seems completely logical, but it is also based on an assumption that human beings can be fundamentally rational. What do you think?
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MireyaGriffin
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I like Douglas Murray's comment on this issue, in the discussion about how, most people under Sam Harris are not like him. So most people are very irrational and have not built up a rigorous framework of moral's and ethics that they follow, they copy what other people around them are doing.
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Yes, human beings are so complex, and groups of human beings are even more complex, it's impossible to know what will happen if we significantly change the system by removing the moral stories of religion from the picture.
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It's not impossible to know, as we can see what has happened in many European countries that for all intents and purposes have no religion, and everything is fine there, in fact their quality of life is better than most of the rest of the world, including the US.
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I have seen Jordan Peterson comment extensively on the European situation, and I feel he has a very valid point. Europe has been a very short experiment without religion, a few decades, of it going well, just a few generations, is really not long enough to see if a society without religion is really durable. People learn behaviour from their parents and those around them. If just a few generations people modeled themselves on religion it takes a few generations of removing religion before this wares off and we can see how things will truly function.
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Is that called memetic theory?
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I think so
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Yes memetic theory describes how people copy each others behaviour and don't really think for themselves as much as we like to believe we do.
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I actually listened to a podcast very recently will Yuval Noah Harari where he made a very interesting argument that the leaders of society generally have always chosen harmony and cohesiveness over truth. So maybe it is truth that religion is not true in a literal sense, but its absence might lead to instability and so leaders have stayed away from pursuing truth.
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I don't think that's a very sophisticated idea, that leaders use religion to control people, people have been talking about opiates of the masses for ages.
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gunther.stonetheo.georgemolly.hopps
gunther.stone, theo.george, molly.hopps and 7 other people started following this discussion
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I don' think so. I think rules makes us a society and not religion.
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I don't think that's a very sophisticated idea, that leaders use religion to control people, people have been talking about opiates of the masses for ages.
That is true but Harari's arguments on this topic is much deeper. Anyway what do you think is more important truth or cohesiveness and harmony.
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That is true but Harari's arguments on this topic is much deeper. Anyway what do you think is more important truth or cohesiveness and harmony.
in the modern age we can handle the truth without killing each other.
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in the modern age we can handle the truth without killing each other.
Can we really? i don;t think so, look at those left wing crazy social justice warriors, that keep find a new thing to fight about, and they are getting more and more facistic.
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